Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

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Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Concerning 16 Beechcroft Rd London SW11, I'm wondering if a mistake has been made and it should SW17.

On all searches I keep getting directed to Beechcroft Rd SW17 which is Tooting.

16 Beechcroft Rd is the home of Charles Sidney Read and wife Maud Matilda Read and wouldn't you just know it, next door at 18 is Frank and Gertrude Mary Johnston (spelt different).

Also in Beechcroft Rd is Springfield Mental Hospital.
Bert

Martin-46
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Martin-46 »

Bert, I think the port at which he was discharged is now called Sekondi which is in Ghana - previously Gold Coast as per customs stamp.

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Martin-46 wrote:
12 Jan 2021 20:14
Bert, I think the port at which he was discharged is now called Sekondi which is in Ghana - previously Gold Coast as per customs stamp.
Nothing I can see to help.
Bert

AndyJ
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by AndyJ »

Bertieone wrote:
12 Jan 2021 19:38
Concerning 16 Beechcroft Rd London SW11, I'm wondering if a mistake has been made and it should SW17.

On all searches I keep getting directed to Beechcroft Rd SW17 which is Tooting.

16 Beechcroft Rd is the home of Charles Sidney Read and wife Maud Matilda Read and wouldn't you just know it, next door at 18 is Frank and Gertrude Mary Johnston (spelt different).

Also in Beechcroft Rd is Springfield Mental Hospital.
There is no-one recorded as living at 16 Beechcroft Road, Upper Tooting, Wandsworth in the 1939 register, the year JFDJ was supposed to be at a 16 Beechcroft Rd. Frank and Gertrude Johnston are at number 18. Frank was born 13 June 1875 and was a journalist.

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

He was recorded at 16, Charles Sidney Read, 1939 Electoral Register, the 1941 directory has none of the above numbers recorded, perhaps missed off or clearance has taken place.

Interesting that Springfield Mental Hospital was/is in Beechcroft Rd and John Johnson had a history of Mental illness.
Bert

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

I don't know if this is the case, they have habits of giving Mental Hospitals, Workhouses, etc. numbers.

It looks better and kinder on official documentation.
Bert

Martin-46
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Martin-46 »

Reflecting on JFDJ's maritime exploits, he was on RMS Carmania in late 1908 when he was 16. Said he had previously been on Lusitania. Both of these were Cunard ships, so he probably was on Lusitania or they would have found out a lie and refused him. Lusitania was the most prestigious ship in the world. How did a 16 year old from Liscard get accepted on to the crew? Cunard was a ranking company (they paid him nearly three times as much as he got on the Muraji). They must have had fairly rigorous selection procedures. Was he helped by someone? His father? Did John Johnson, Ship's Officer work for Cunard? Crew lists for Cunard (75% of) are in Maritime History Archive in Canada - but not on-line. Shame.

By the way Bert, how did you find 14 Morpeth St as Houldsworth's home ?

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Thomas Thornley Holdsworth, 14 Morpeth St.......Burial.

Anfield Cemetery

Image
Bert

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Martin-46 wrote:
13 Jan 2021 14:52
How did a 16 year old from Liscard get accepted on to the crew? .
He might have been of good character, well mannered and polite, if he did get a leg up from his father's past, I'm not sure how that can be proved from crew lists. Perhaps an Email to the Canadian Maritime, see where it goes.
Bert

Martin-46
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Martin-46 »

This was the man. Does he look of good character ?
Image

SuffolkSandry97
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by SuffolkSandry97 »

What a wonderful photograph of JFDJ, Martin! As soon as I saw it, I felt it was exactly right for the man we've all been discussing! A perfect fit to the image I had built up in my mind!
I have this evening received a copy of the will and Probate of Thomas Thornely Holdsworth, the gentleman that Lilly Johnson married in July 1906. He wrote his will in November 1906, in which he 'bequeathed to my wife Lilly Holdsworth all my household furniture jewellery plate linen china goods chattels and effects absolutely. I also bequeath to my said wife a legacy of fifty pounds to be paid to her as soon as conveniently may be after my decease....' As the will was written soon after their marriage, it's unfortunately inconclusive as to whether Lilly definitely outlived him. I can say that at the date at which the will was written, his/their address was given as 13 Morpeth Street, Liverpool.
Hope that's of interest. Thanks again for the wonderful photo Martin.

Martin-46
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Martin-46 »

This was taken about 1917
Image

AndyJ
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by AndyJ »

He is in the uniform of 10th (Scottish) Battalion of the King's Regiment (Liverpool), which is confirmed by the documents posted by Bertie and Martin on page 6 of this thread. As he isn't wearing any rank badges I would guess this was taken between 26/7/1915 and 4/10/16, and not as late as 1917 as suggested by Martin. The Liverpool Scottish have their own museum.

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MaryA
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by MaryA »

What wonderful photographs, thanks for sharing them with us.
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Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Is the young lady Ethel?

If so, prior to the marriage, no sign of a wedding ring.

Photo, Cathedral Studio, Chester.

Long shot, visiting mother perhaps, Lily Holdsworth died in Chester, 1921, worth looking in to.
Bert

Martin-46
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Martin-46 »

Bert, I can only assume it is Ethel. My aunt sent me the pic about 15/20 years ago. On the envelope she wrote "Reg No. 5068 Liverpool Scottish. Later July 1918 No.5 O.C.B. Trinity College Cambridge. Your Grandfather John. Your Grandmother Ethel Red Cross. I imagine these were engagement photos taken about 1914-1915". (The number 5068 also appears on the marriage certificate but doesn't seem to square with his military number.
The trouble is that my aunt had only hearsay to go by.
Strangely in my great aunt Winifred's diary - which is rather sketchy and rambling - she makes absolutely no mention of Ethel having been a nurse - although she mentions several other roles. She herself was a nurse but I can't conceive of her being the one in the photo - they were very prim and proper. As I said before, Winifred's diary was published with the Daily Mail logo on the front cover. The book has no date nor ISBN number. The authors were Christine Ducrotoy and John Charles Johnson (my uncle - who inherited all of Ethel's effects). I suspect they published it privately using the Daily Mail press. Christine Ducrotoy is to be found via Google - describing herself as a genealogist - extravagently written up - but there is not much to her name other than Winifred's diary and one other publication. They presumably didn't know that anyone can get an ISBN number - I have a few myself.
You will spot that C.D. has a Moulton connection (the family of bicycle fame) - this is probably how my uncle got to know her because his mother's mother (Annie Stephenson Boughey 1865 - 1942) was the daughter of Elizabeth Moulton (1810-1866).
My uncle collaborated with C.D. in searching for info about his father and it may well have been her who unearthed the 'John Fleming' birth certificate. Perhaps she knows more.

Andy you are probably right about the date, he was a corporal by October 1916. He and Ethel met in 1913 when he was working in Flint. Winifred said they got engaged early - so maybe it is an engagement photo taken around 1915.

AndyJ
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by AndyJ »

Martin-46 wrote:
14 Jan 2021 12:53
I can only assume it is Ethel. My aunt sent me the pic about 15/20 years ago. On the envelope she wrote "Reg No. 5068 Liverpool Scottish. Later July 1918 No.5 O.C.B. Trinity College Cambridge. Your Grandfather John. Your Grandmother Ethel Red Cross. I imagine these were engagement photos taken about 1914-1915". (The number 5068 also appears on the marriage certificate but doesn't seem to square with his military number.
It does with his medal card which Bertie posted earlier on.
Image

Regimental numbers were just that, a number allocated by each regiment and so when someone transferred to another regiment he would be allocated a new number. It was not until August 1920 that a centralised system of 7 digit numbers (later 8 digit) was introduced, meaning that each service number was unique and followed a soldier throughout his career. The only time a a soldier would change numbers from 1920 onwards was if he was commissioned, when he would be given a shorter 6 digit service number. Servicewomen used to have 6 digit numbers prefixed with a W, although I believe that changed fairly recently and they now have same type of service number as the men.
Much more on this subject here.

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MaryA
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by MaryA »

So far as I am aware, girls who married had to retire from nursing, but maybe that would be later as surely they would have been needed during wartime.
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AndyJ
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by AndyJ »

Bertieone wrote:
14 Jan 2021 10:03

Photo, Cathedral Studio, Chester.

Long shot, visiting mother perhaps, Lily Holdsworth died in Chester, 1921, worth looking in to.
Bertie, where did you get that information about the studio? If I hadn't known that I would have suggested this might possibly have been taken in France due to the rather lacklustre background, in which case the nurse may just have been someone who was serving in a hospital there.

And Martin there were several types of nurses in France, including the Red Cross. As well as the Army Medical Services and the Red Cross, there were other volunteer organisations such as the St John Ambulance who ran field hospitals. They have have a museum in London.

Bertieone
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Re: Was he Dennison or Johnson ?

Post by Bertieone »

Andy,

Bottom right hand corner on photo.
Bert

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