Cold case - my Grandmother

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Hilary
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Post by Hilary »

I've been very naughty and tagged some requests onto you for some more possible marriages. I'm still tgrying to worl out which is probably my Elizabeth.

According to the baptism entry she was born 21 September 1870 and her address at baptism on 26 December 1870 was Titchfield Street. I reckon this was in Liverpool Reg District. I checked Sept and Dec Q and came up with

December Quarter Liverpool 8b page 13 which would make it one of the earliest in the quarter. I think I'll go for it.

Hilary
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MaryA
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Post by MaryA »

Education Officer wrote:I've been very naughty and tagged some requests onto you for some more possible marriages.
I reckon this is a good way of doing it, then whoever is good enough to look them up for us has them all in one list.

Good luck with the birth, fingers crossed you have the right one.
MaryA
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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Hilary
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Post by Hilary »

Hi All

I have just received the birth certifictae of Elizabeth Jones (my lost grandmother) For those who don't remeber this was a hunt for a possible Elizabeth Jones born 1870/71 with a father George something to do with shipbuilding and a relative with the initials M J Jones possibly an older sister.

27 September 1870 at 99 Titichfield Street Elizabeth father George Jones boiler maker mother Mary Jones formerly Derbyshire Mary registered the birth on 19 October and made her mark.

So with thanks to Eileen I have her parents marriage

8.1.1854 George Jones - Full - Bachelor - Boilermaker of Cheapside - Father William Jones - Labourer to Mary Derbyshire - Full - Spinster of Russell Street - Father William Derbyshire - Labourer - After Banns
Witnesses - William Young and Alice Mason. Alice made X others signed.


Many thanks to everyone who helped in this search.

Hilary
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MaryA
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Post by MaryA »

Education Officer wrote: For those who don't remeber
And just who could forget that chase?

Well done on the certificate, glad it seems to confirm everything, and just pulled all the ends together.

We'll be looking for another "Cold Case", who will post theirs next I wonder?
MaryA
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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

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42aitch
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Post by 42aitch »

Hi Ed Off,

Glad to hear that we had the correct marriage and now you have the birth certificate. It is good when things go well.

Glad to be of assistance.

Eileen
Jack, Hennigan, Shields Croft, Canavan, Morris, Tipping, Forshaw,
Also Simpson, Curran, Turner, Howard, Shacklady
Any census/bmd information within this post is Crown Copyright from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Hilary
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Post by Hilary »

Thought I'd bring people up to date on the mad search we had one Sunday evening for my grandmother Elizabeth Jones who it tuens out probably shouldn't have been called Jones her grandfather was telling porkies!!!

The marriage of George Jones to Mary Derbyshire in 1854 turned out to be the correct one. This gave George's father as William Jones labourer so I set off looking for him and found these 2 census entries that I thought were correct.

1841 Gildart Gardens
William Jones 55 not born in county
Ann Jones 55
Samuel Jones 19
Thomas Jones 17
George Jones 9 (my George)
Elizabeth Jones 11w
everyone else bn Lancashire

1851 Gildarts Gardens
William Jones H M 43 labourer bn Cheshire
Ann wife 34
George son 19 smith
Mary Ann daughter 10
Thomas son 7
Elizabeth 10 mo
Mary Ellen no surname 16
everyone else is born Liverpool

I found George's baptism at St peter 11 Dec 1832 George son of William and Ann Jobes of Bootle p of Walton labourer

This certainly looked like my family but was it perhaps 2 families. Couldn't find William in 1861 but found
1861 67 Gildart Gardens
Thomas Price H M 47 brushmaker
Ann wife 45
William son 8
Thomas Jones stepson 17 dock lab
Elizabeth stepdaughter 10
Sarah Jones stepdaughter 9

The names looked familiar so looked for a marriage on lancsbmd and there it was Thomas S Price married Ann Jones or Ann Higginson 1857. Then I looked for a marriage of a William Jones to Ann Higginson and found it on lanc-opc in 1831.

Today I thought I'd have a look at the actual marriages and get print outs. Beside the marriage of William Jones to Ann Higginson has been written

This is to certify that the person named William Jones in no 92 has this day produced the certoficate of his baptism at Bunbury 25 June 1806 wherein it appears that his real name is William Brierley signed and witnessed on 1 Dec 1839

I fell about laughing my grandmother was really a Brierley! I wonder what William was hiding? Another coincidence my paternal great grandfather ended up living and dying in Bunbury!

Remember the photo of my grandmother and another lady - I sent it to the daughter in law of Elizabeth Jones whose in her nineties straightway I got a reply that the lady on the left with the glasses was Elizabeth Jones the other lady was a Mrs Brunskill whose son Bunny was a friend of my uncles - so not a sister and what an earth is Bunny the nickname for?

Hilary
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MaryA
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Post by MaryA »

Oh my word and wouldn't Brierley have been a much easier name to be searching for, I hope you gave him a good telling off, except that he's given you that major lead of Bunbury.

I suspect that "Bunny" is not short for any christian name - back in the days when managers in offices were called "Mr so and so" I worked for a Mr Brunskill who was rather affectionately known as "Mr Bunny".
MaryA
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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Hilary
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Post by Hilary »

You didn't work for the Royal Insurance by any chance?

Hilary
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Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

A couple of weeks ago I sent for the 1939 National Identity Card information for the address my elusive grandmother was living at in 1939. I received the information today

Name Elizabeth Dobson
Gender Female
DOB 27 September 1871
Marital status Widowed
Occupation Private means

Very interestingly the Elizabeth Jones we tracked down earlier in this post has a date of birth of 27 September 1870!!

It looks very likely we were right all the time but to make sure I will apply for a birth certificate for Elizabeth Jones born 27 September 1871 with father George Jones to make sure!!

Watch this space!!
Hilary
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Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

Just to finish off this story. This week I received a cheque from the GRO because there was no Elizabeth Jones born 27 September 1871! So the Elizabeth Jones born 27 September 1870 is definitely mine!!

Her mother Mary Derbyshire seems a little elusive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and actually her grandfather was William Brierley!!!!!!
Hilary
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MaryA
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by MaryA »

Wheeeeee a great result, now onto the next problem, can't be worse than the original .... or can it :lol:
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

Just had to add that this evening I've found another bit of evidence that confirms I have the right Elizabeth Jones.

I thought I'd look for Mary Jane Jones in the 1911 census but no success - She alters her birth date like sister! so I looked for mum Mary who seems to be more consistent with her age. I found this

69 Hall Road West Derby
Robert Guthrie 53
Mary Guthrie 48 married 6 years
Mary Jones 78 mother in law

Then I found Robert Guthrie married Jane Jones daughter of George Jones on 1 May 1905 at St Mary Edge Hill (need the actual entry )

Then I found that Robert's executor in 1929 was his widow Mary Jane

And then I found Mary Jane Guthrie died 16 Feb 1939 and administration was granted to Elizabeth Dobson my grandmother so we have the right family!

Whoopee!

Just need SKP to look up the marriage and the Echo to see if Mary's death is in there

To everyone who has helped in my search many many thanks
Hilary
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MaryA
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by MaryA »

Another good result, great when things just click together.

Can the look ups wait till Tuesday?
MaryA
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Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

Tuesday will be wonderful thank you!
Hilary
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Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

I’m now ordered by the NHS to stay in for 12 weeks, I’m one of the 1.5 million who received an email yesterday to say I’m someone at risk of severe illness if I catch Coronavirus. Anyhow I decided that I would at last start writing up my grandmother’s family history. My grandmother is the Jones of this thread. I would like to print out the whole thread if it’s possible to put in the file of her family to show how you all solved her ancestry.

If someone could tell me how to do it I’d be very grateful. As some of you know I’m not very technically minded.

I hope everyone stays well.
Hilary
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Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

I think I might have cracked it by copying and pasting! I’ll let you know.
Hilary
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Bertieone
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Bertieone »

I have Windows 10,

If you right click on page 1 and click print, this appears, take it from there.

Image
Bert

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MaryA
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by MaryA »

Good luck with it Hilary, and thanks for that suggestion Bert, it looks quite logical so long as you don't mind the credits to everybody down the pages. (From another in solitary confinement).
MaryA
Our Facebook Page
Names - Lunt, Hall, Kent, Ayre, Forshaw, Parle, Lawrenson, Longford, Ennis, Bayley, Russell, Longworth, Baile
Any census info in this post is Crown Copyright, from National Archives

Bertieone
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Bertieone »

Hilary did say she wanted the whole thread, it depends on what electronic wizardry she has whether it works for her.
Bert

Hilary
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Re: Cold case - my Grandmother

Post by Hilary »

Thanks everybody I’ll try later and let you know how I get on. Just going to do laps round ( inside ) my flat to keep the legs going!
Hilary
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